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 Post subject: allergic to turkey?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:59 am
Posts: 63
Location: Ohio
My son is allergic to egg (among many others) and the allergist told me we should stay away from chicken for awhile given the potential cross reactivity to egg; but go ahead with turkey. I researched a brand that I could use that did not contain gluten or caesin due to his wheat and milk allergy. It was applefarms brand.

Anyway, we gave him deli turkey meat tonight and he broke out in little hives all around his mouth and down his kneck. It didn't get any worse and Benedryl cleared it up. I am pretty sure it has to be the turkey as that was the only new food we tried today.

Does anyone else who is allergic to eggs find they are allergic to fowl?

Thanks!

_________________
2.5 year old: allergic to wheat, dairy, egg, peanut, oat, turkey, and cats
5 year old: no known allergies
Husband no known allergies
Me allergy to morphine only


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 2044
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
My oldest son is. He has been diagnosed as allergic to eggs and chicken (and other things). We tried turkey, we tried quail, we tried cornish rock hens, we tried duck... then we threw in the towel. They all made him feel sick.

It's a shame because he has some issues with texture and would likely love chicken from a texture perspective.

K.

_________________
Karen, proud Mom of
- DS1 (12 yrs): allergic to cashews, pistachios, Brazil nuts, potatoes, some legumes, some fish, pumpkin seeds; OAS
- DS2 (1o yrs): ana. to dairy, eggs, peanuts; asthma


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: saskatchewan, canada
My youngest is allergic to eggs and chicken. We have not given her any other kinds of fowl. I doubt she would eat it (she won't eat any meat) so I'm thinking why risk a reaction when she won't eat it anyways. I know my allergist has only had 3 cases of egg and chicken allergic kids in his career. I know the other two (other than my daughter) have since outgrown both the egg and the chicken/fowl . The one patient was allergic to all fowl and the other one only to chicken.

_________________
DD age 9 1/2 -peanuts, nuts,
DD age 7 1/2 - milk, eggs, chicken, peanuts, treenuts, cats, dogs,
DS age 2 1/2
Husband- asthma, eggs, treenuts, fish, shellfish environmental
Self - penicillan, eurithromiacin, mild laytex allergy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:15 am 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 6502
Location: Ottawa
I stay away from anything deli due to the worry of cross contamination. You don't know what they last sliced on the slicer.
Watch out too, for those dairy infused turkeys (Butterball and the like).

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Moderator
Daughter: asthma, allergies to egg, milk, peanuts, tree nuts, most legumes (not soy) & penicillin. Developing hayfever type allergies.
Husband: no allergies
Me: allergies to some tree that flowers in May
Cat: allergic to beef, pork and lamb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:59 am
Posts: 63
Location: Ohio
Thanks for the info. It doesn't suprise me that it is unusual to be allergic to both and Sam is- the allergist said he thought it was unsual to be allergic to oat and Sam has that allergy too!

But glad to hear that there is still hope he will outgrow it.

Susan- I know what you mean about cross contamination- I bought prepackaged deli meat that they indicated was casin and gluten free. He seemed to tolerate the sliced ham fine so it looks like turkey is the culprit. At least the reaction wasn't as bad as his initial reaction to wheat!

Oh well we will just add it to the list.....

_________________
2.5 year old: allergic to wheat, dairy, egg, peanut, oat, turkey, and cats
5 year old: no known allergies
Husband no known allergies
Me allergy to morphine only


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:18 am 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 6502
Location: Ottawa
About oats...I have a co-worker with celiac disease and she can't have oats, too much gluten. I mention this because I see from you signature that your son has wheat allergies. I wonder if it is related.

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Moderator
Daughter: asthma, allergies to egg, milk, peanuts, tree nuts, most legumes (not soy) & penicillin. Developing hayfever type allergies.
Husband: no allergies
Me: allergies to some tree that flowers in May
Cat: allergic to beef, pork and lamb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:59 am
Posts: 63
Location: Ohio
I also wondered about celiac's disease. I have friend with it and asked the allergist. His only response was 'he doesn't look like a celiac kid' because he is so big. (in his opinion celiac kids are often sick or thin a lot? I don't know? He also said the hive reaction he had with wheat was not consistent with celiac's disease. He didn't have an gastro effects from his wheat cracker either.

If anyone else out there has any insight that would be great.

_________________
2.5 year old: allergic to wheat, dairy, egg, peanut, oat, turkey, and cats
5 year old: no known allergies
Husband no known allergies
Me allergy to morphine only


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 2044
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
_Susan_ wrote:
About oats...I have a co-worker with celiac disease and she can't have oats, too much gluten. I mention this because I see from you signature that your son has wheat allergies. I wonder if it is related.


Oats don't actually contain gluten, as far as I know. However, many people with Celiac Disease avoid oats because of the risk of cross-contamination with gluten. See http://www.foodallergysolutions.com/foo ... s0204.html - "Oats do not have gluten in them, but they may have gluten on them. If that sounds confusing then please let me explain...." (More details on that page.)

I learned a lot about this when my son was allergic to wheat and barley and we both avoided those foods for three years!

There is actually a company in Quebec called Cream Hill Estates ( http://www.creamhillestates.com/en_home.php ) that makes gluten-free oats, if anyone is interested in that!

K.

_________________
Karen, proud Mom of
- DS1 (12 yrs): allergic to cashews, pistachios, Brazil nuts, potatoes, some legumes, some fish, pumpkin seeds; OAS
- DS2 (1o yrs): ana. to dairy, eggs, peanuts; asthma


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:03 am 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 6502
Location: Ottawa
Karen, thank you for clairifying. I'm always a little worried that I may have gotten the information wrong. I think it's very important that people always research any information obtained on a forum to ensure that it is accurate.
Thank you again for doing that.
Hmmmm, maybe I'll put a disclaimer in my signature. :)

_________________
Moderator
Daughter: asthma, allergies to egg, milk, peanuts, tree nuts, most legumes (not soy) & penicillin. Developing hayfever type allergies.
Husband: no allergies
Me: allergies to some tree that flowers in May
Cat: allergic to beef, pork and lamb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:10 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Oats contain a gluten called avenin, which some folks with CD (especially children) do happen to react to. If you google "anti-avenin antibodies", you can see some of the research on this. There are pretty mixed results.

They're heavily contaminated in the US, from the field to the mill, which is another reason folks with CD avoid them. With a wheat allergy, I find that my allergy symptoms show up if I have oats. Since I have both a gluten intolerance *and* a wheat allergy, I just avoid oats altogether. It's not like they're a necessary part of my diet.


All that aside, it's certainly possible to be allergic to oats and not allergic to wheat.

_________________
~*~*~ That which does not kill me only gives me hives. ~*~*~


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 2044
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Thanks for the info about the avenin protein, krasota! That is new info for me.

I think we're both right, actually. My research has shown me that avenin isn't gluten per se (it's a protein) - but it can be harmful to those with celiac disease - although it appears that this may not be the case for everyone. (Read on!)

Quote:
The protein found in oats, which is toxic to those with coeliac disease, isn't gluten but a type of prolamin called avenin. The amount of this protein found in oats is fairly small, especially compared with the toxic prolamins in other cereals such as wheat, barley and rye. So a small amount of oats may be fine although larger or frequent oat intake may cause problems.


The source for this is http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/ask_the_doc ... ease.shtml - which is in the UK.

And while the Canadian Celiac Foundation has an article (dated 1998) that says that oats should be avoided in a gluten-free diet, they also have a new "Position Statement on Oats" at http://www.celiac.ca/Articles/PABoats.html (dated 2006) that says this:

Quote:
In Canada, pure and uncontaminated* oats are now being produced. Individuals with celiac disease who wish to add oats or oat products to their diet must ensure that the oats they are eating are free from gluten contamination.


And the National Foundation for Celiac Awareness (U.S.) says this at http://www.celiaccentral.org/Do_I_Have_Celiac_/13/ :

Quote:
Whether people with celiac disease should avoid oats is controversial because some people have been able to eat oats without having a reaction. Scientists are doing studies to find out whether people with celiac disease can tolerate oats. Until the studies are complete, people with celiac disease should follow their physician or dietitian's advice about eating oats. A dietician is a health care professional who specializes in food and nutrition.


So it sounds like it's not totally black-and-white...

Anyway, obviously those who are celiac are doing all they can to avoid harmful substances, which is a good thing. But it sounds to me like some people with celiac may be able to tolerate some gluten-free oats... :) (Which I think would be good news, no?)

And if you're allergic to wheat, oats might be okay for you. They were okay for my son when he was allergic to wheat and barley. I'm guessing that the protein(s) that he was allergic to in the wheat/barley are not found in oats.

K.

_________________
Karen, proud Mom of
- DS1 (12 yrs): allergic to cashews, pistachios, Brazil nuts, potatoes, some legumes, some fish, pumpkin seeds; OAS
- DS2 (1o yrs): ana. to dairy, eggs, peanuts; asthma


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:10 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Charlottesville, VA
KarenOASG wrote:
Thanks for the info about the avenin protein, krasota! That is new info for me.

I think we're both right, actually. My research has shown me that avenin isn't gluten per se (it's a protein) - but it can be harmful to those with celiac disease - although it appears that this may not be the case for everyone.


Actually, the problem herein lies with terminology. Glutens are types of protein found in most grains. Only certain glutens cause problems with folks who have CD. Avenin is certainly *a* gluten, but it's not necessarily one that triggers autoimmune reactions in all folks with CD. Corn also has gluten, but it's not one that ever causes AI reactions in folks with CD.

The gluten proteins which are primarily responsible for celiac damage are gliadin/glutenin, hordein, and secalin. And some folks don't react as severely to hordein (found in barley).

_________________
~*~*~ That which does not kill me only gives me hives. ~*~*~


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 1454
Location: Canada
ilovesammy wrote:
I also wondered about celiac's disease. I have friend with it and asked the allergist. His only response was 'he doesn't look like a celiac kid' because he is so big. (in his opinion celiac kids are often sick or thin a lot? I don't know? He also said the hive reaction he had with wheat was not consistent with celiac's disease. He didn't have an gastro effects from his wheat cracker either.

If anyone else out there has any insight that would be great.


It used to be that celiacs were thought to be generally underweight, malnourished. But now that the blood tests are more sensitive, doctors up on their celiac disease research know that there are a whole range of symptoms that could indicate celiac. Actually, the majority of people with damage to the small intestine are asymptomatic and therefore never diagnosed. (see the resources below) Given the fact that the vast majority of people with celiac are undiagnosed, I feel that anyone who is sensitive to more than one form of gluten ought to be tested.

But most docs just know the "classic" celiac symptoms that they learned about way back when they were in medical school. I find this *so* frustrating. They *know* or should know that research changes all of the time. So they have a responsibility to look up info. that they aren't sure about! There's no sense in making pronouncements based on outdated research.

So......you can't tell based on what a kid "looks like." In fact, for some people celiac disease results in obesity (they are hungry all the time because they aren't getting enough nutrients.)

Good resources for celiac:
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddisease ... /index.htm

http://www.celiacdiseasecenter.columbia.edu/CF-HOME.htm

If you want to pursue this, it might be of use to bring these resources with you. The NIH as well as the centre at Columbia are pretty much authoritative sources.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:59 am
Posts: 63
Location: Ohio
It did note on that website that failure to thrive is a possible symptom but then noted that hunger is a big issue too. My 1 year old eat TONS of food for his age. But he is only 1 and his diet never included any whole grains to begin with? He was diagnosed at 7 months due to his 1st exposure to a wheat cracker caused a hive/respiratory response. So could he have any damage to his small intestines anyway?

Ok i found this on one of the websites:

How is a "wheat allergy" different from "celiac disease"?
A common garden-variety "wheat allergy" happens when your body sees wheat as an invader and attacks it -- not your body. Symptoms of wheat allergy could be eczema (different from dermatitis herpetiformis), sneezing, increased acne, or if you have a very serious allergy to wheat, you might have an anaphylactic reaction in which your throat would swell up to the point where you could no longer breath. These are not symptoms typical of celiac disease. The main effect of celiac disease is damage to the small intestine; if you have symptoms that are caused by damage to the small intestine (e.g. flattened villi as seen in a biopsy, or any form of malnutrition that is caused by the damaged villi) then what you have is not a wheat allergy, but celiac disease. In my years dealing with wheat-free diets, I have seen very few people with a simple "wheat allergy" and lots with celiac disease, so I suspect celiac disease is more common than wheat allergies. If you have problems with wheat, you should visit with a gastroenterologist and get tested for celiac disease.

My son had a respiratory response to wheat and a skin response with excema (which he regularly struggles with) to his many allergies. Those symptoms are not associated with celiac. but then it recommends that you visit a gastroentrerologist. This is somewhat confusing to me.

In some ways I guess it is a non issue because he doesn't eat any wheat, rye or barley right now anyway. Plus given his diagnosed allergy, I couldn't feed him these foods for the test to work. So I guess we do nothing? He has an appt with his allergist next week I will bring this up.

_________________
2.5 year old: allergic to wheat, dairy, egg, peanut, oat, turkey, and cats
5 year old: no known allergies
Husband no known allergies
Me allergy to morphine only


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 1454
Location: Canada
The symptoms you are describing do sound like an allergy rather than celiac disease. It is possible, too that his reaction to oats is due to his wheat allergy since he sounds pretty sensitive to wheat. Whether your son is celiac or not in addition it is difficult to say. . . . it is possible.

I don't know whether there would still be damage if he was celiac---not sure how long it would take the villi to heal--your son was still eating wheat up to 7 months, right? I have read that children heal a lot quicker than adults do, so that's encouraging.

The blood tests are supposed to be done while the patient is still consuming gluten as well. The antibodies they test to tend to disappear when celiacs are on a gluten free diet (but they don't always). I have no idea how long it would take for the antibody levels to go down in a child that young.

As to whether you'd do anything different if you knew he was celiac---celiacs have to be careful about cross contamination at the level of manufacturing and in the kitchen. You might be already doing this, though, because of the wheat allergy. One thing I had to cut out of my diet: rice milk (which I only had occasionally anyhow). It has residual barley protein (or at least Rice Dream does. there are gluten free rice milks out there.)

There's not much helpful info. here . .. but it is a tough situation to figure out. Good luck with the appointment---let us know how things go.


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