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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 805
Location: Vancouver, BC
The reason I ask is that most people agree it's more user-friendly, but I heard this morning that there are people with major concerns about the new design, mainly that "the needle isn't spring loaded anymore, and the retraction on the new needle guard is strong enough to pull the needle out of the skin before the full dose of epinephrine is administered"

Ths is concerning if indeed true. Any thoughts?

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DD 2004 Allergy to peanuts, egg, sesame, and new: lentils and chick peas
DS 2006 Allergy to peanuts, tree nuts, milk, egg, kiwi fruit, eczema


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:37 am
Posts: 1523
Location: Alberta
One thing that really concerns me is when people think they have to wind up and jab it in. I worry that the bounce back could cause it to come out - but that's a concern of mind with the old one.

My DD came home from a babysitting first aid course and told me about the instructor showing them to admin with a wind & jab and when DD tried to correct her was told "that's the way we've been told to teach it- so that's what I do."

I told DD that maybe the instructor would think about it later and make a change.

This could be a major issue. I hope not.
..but in answer to your question? No.

Michele

_________________
Myself - Seasonal, cats
dd-asthma (trigger - flu) anaphylactic to eggs, severe allergies to bugspray and penicilin,pulmicort
ds-Seasonal, cats and OAS
dh-allergy cats, bugspray and guava, outgrew egg allergy


Last edited by alberta advocate on Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 805
Location: Vancouver, BC
Thanks Michele, I found a thread on peanutallergy.com that discusses this: http://www.peanutallergy.com/boards/gen ... esign-fail

Funnily enough, it says the 'wind up and jab' works better with the new design. I'm kind of concerned now, with what I'm reading, that while all the teachers, etc at our schools have been shown the new design, there was no mention of the increased strength that's needed to hold the unit in place while the meds are being administered. I wonder how using the real thing differs in feel to using the trainer.

_________________
DD 2004 Allergy to peanuts, egg, sesame, and new: lentils and chick peas
DS 2006 Allergy to peanuts, tree nuts, milk, egg, kiwi fruit, eczema


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Terrebonne, Quebec
That concerns me, i've used the old one a few times on my daughter, who isn't even 2, and it's hard enough to hold her still to give it to her, but if I have to focus on holding the unit to her thigh hard to keep it in, that's energy I usually need to put her into a safe position and hold her there (you should see the position i've devised, it looks absolutely torturous) and as she gets older in her toddler years, it will only get harder to hold her still.. This would possibly also be a concern for those self administering, if they have already begun their reactions and are close to losing conciousness, their muscle control is tentative at best, and I would worry the grip they have wouldn't be enough to maintain the 10 second hold..

_________________
Daughter 3.5 years) - Dairy, Eggs, Peanuts, Sesame, Beef; asthma and eczema
Daughter (2 years) - Peanuts Eczema
Son (7 months) - Contact allergy to something food undetermined


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:24 pm
Posts: 190
Location: B.C.
I attended a teacher training session recently to the Epipen. We were able to try trainers of both the old and new type. There was no mention of any change in delivery. Honestly I didn't find any noticeable difference in the trainer. What is needed as a follow-up? If we need to administer differently shouldn't the trainer give us a better idea of how this works?

The idea of someone swinging and jabbing is a bit intimidating. Anyone actually tried the new pen yet?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 805
Location: Vancouver, BC
cauger - i haven't had to use an epipen yet, but have thought i would have to sit on my child to administer if s/he were struggling to avoid getting poked by the needle.

I'm really unsure if this is a widespread problem or just that one person experienced a difference with the new one. I'm hesitant to waste $100 to try out a new one, but will be doing so the minute our first one expires next summer.

_________________
DD 2004 Allergy to peanuts, egg, sesame, and new: lentils and chick peas
DS 2006 Allergy to peanuts, tree nuts, milk, egg, kiwi fruit, eczema


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2034
Location: ottawa
I sent Epipen an emailing with these concerns. I'll post their response as soon as I receive it.

_________________
DD 12 yrs -no allergies
4 yr old DS - asthma/eczema Anaphylactic to Peanuts, all tree nuts, sesame , all pea/lentil legumes, gelatin.
Allergic to trees, grass,ragweed, feathers, dander, mold and dust.
Outgrew eggs, fish, shellfish


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 805
Location: Vancouver, BC
Thx bc. My cousin, who notified me of this issue, also emailed them a few days ago. I'll report back if sh gets back to me.

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DD 2004 Allergy to peanuts, egg, sesame, and new: lentils and chick peas
DS 2006 Allergy to peanuts, tree nuts, milk, egg, kiwi fruit, eczema


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 6476
Location: Ottawa
With the child who struggles, you can lay them down, place a leg over their leg, place your upper body across their body to pin them in place. They way squirm and flail on your back, but you'll have a tight hold on their thigh!

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Moderator
Daughter: asthma, allergies to egg, milk, peanuts, tree nuts, most legumes (not soy) & penicillin. Developing hayfever type allergies.
Husband: no allergies
Me: allergies to some tree that flowers in May
Cat: allergic to beef, pork and lamb


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2034
Location: ottawa
I haven't heard back from Epipen so I'll call them this morning.

_________________
DD 12 yrs -no allergies
4 yr old DS - asthma/eczema Anaphylactic to Peanuts, all tree nuts, sesame , all pea/lentil legumes, gelatin.
Allergic to trees, grass,ragweed, feathers, dander, mold and dust.
Outgrew eggs, fish, shellfish


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2034
Location: ottawa
I just talked to a lady at EPIPEN and she let me know that the new design was tested for months before releasing it. The design they chose for the new epipen, the one we all have, was chosen by subjects 99% of the time during testing as the best model.

1. You DO need to use the swing and jab motion. No extreme force is needed, just the arm movement of the upward swing and jab gives the perfect amount of pressure. The swing and jab will also make it less painful for the person receiving the epipen.

2. The trainer will feel the EXACT same way the actual epipen will feel for the entire process, the swing and jab, for holding it down and for the needle cover coming down.

3.The same force is needed to hold the trainer down for the 10 second count as the real epipen. Nothing is different from the previous epipen design, you don't need to push down any harder than before, just hold it firmly in place for the 10 second count.

4. The trainer's needle cover will have the identical feel so to say, as with the real epipen as it comes down. It does not push the needle out of the skin. As you lift the epipen out the needle cover slowly comes down over the needle. I was told that there is no difference in how the trainer needle cover comes out than with the real epipen.

:happydance

_________________
DD 12 yrs -no allergies
4 yr old DS - asthma/eczema Anaphylactic to Peanuts, all tree nuts, sesame , all pea/lentil legumes, gelatin.
Allergic to trees, grass,ragweed, feathers, dander, mold and dust.
Outgrew eggs, fish, shellfish


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:37 am
Posts: 1523
Location: Alberta
:thanksign BC2007

I think that this supports the "notion" that at the very least annual training needs to be done with the people who are not liable for our children.

Michele

_________________
Myself - Seasonal, cats
dd-asthma (trigger - flu) anaphylactic to eggs, severe allergies to bugspray and penicilin,pulmicort
ds-Seasonal, cats and OAS
dh-allergy cats, bugspray and guava, outgrew egg allergy


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 805
Location: Vancouver, BC
Thanks so much, bc! That sounds good, so hopefully it was just one person who didn't hold it firmly enough?

_________________
DD 2004 Allergy to peanuts, egg, sesame, and new: lentils and chick peas
DS 2006 Allergy to peanuts, tree nuts, milk, egg, kiwi fruit, eczema


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Terrebonne, Quebec
Glad that was cleared up..

Alisons mom - For me giving it to my daughter when I did, I did it bear hug style..
I put her in my lap, put one of my legs over her lower legs, restrained her arms with 1 arm, then I had 1 arm free for the epi pen.. Tricky, but it might be worth trying out a few positions to find out what works best for you beforehand, just so you don't have to worry about that on top of it all if it does happen. The first time I was so worried that she's flail att he wrong moment and end up with a horrible bruise from the needle, but that didn't really happen. Honestly, the shock that she showed when I injected the needle stoped her from moving entirely, then she did that huge slow intake of breath that preceeds a huge wail, but that was kind of nice, because that lasted most of the 10 seconds.. She froze, then prepared for her huge scream, then by the time she finished that 1 scream it was over and we went to the comforting stage...

_________________
Daughter 3.5 years) - Dairy, Eggs, Peanuts, Sesame, Beef; asthma and eczema
Daughter (2 years) - Peanuts Eczema
Son (7 months) - Contact allergy to something food undetermined


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2034
Location: ottawa
I thought DS would freak out and flail about so I asked another woman in the room to hold his legs. He never moved and by this time was having so much difficulty that the second the needle went into his leg I could actually feel his entire body relax. It was about 15 seconds later that he started to cry, that's ok though as by then I was crying too. :?

But the few times our family DR needed to give him epinephrine (after vaccines/gelatin) it was syringe style in the arm and those times it did take a very creating move for me to pinning him against me so they could inject his arms. Half of his fighting was due to his reaction and the other half I think might have been the drama in the room with a nurse injecting one arm while the dr injected his other arm at the exact same time.

_________________
DD 12 yrs -no allergies
4 yr old DS - asthma/eczema Anaphylactic to Peanuts, all tree nuts, sesame , all pea/lentil legumes, gelatin.
Allergic to trees, grass,ragweed, feathers, dander, mold and dust.
Outgrew eggs, fish, shellfish


Last edited by BC2007 on Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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