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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:05 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Burlington, Ontario
My neighbour's little son (he's almost three) has asthma, environmental allergies, multiple food allergies (dairy, wheat, eggs, soy, lentils, peanuts/nuts, shellfish, fish, and I'm sure I'm that's not a complete list). His mom told me he's also allergic to all insects, so they're getting a screened porch built.

I don't know how they know about the insects, since it sounds like you can't get tested at that age.

She told me they went for a "Red Paw" test, which is a computerized electro-dermal testing (this is their website: http://www.redpaw.net/). Perhaps that's how the insect allergy was diagnosed, but this sounds to me like it's an unproven testing method and therefore somewhat controversial.

Anyway, sounds like you can have both food and insect allergies, but it must be rather rare.

_________________
15 year old - asthmatic, allergic to cats, dogs, horses, waiting to be "officially" diagnosed for anaphylaxis
12 year old - asthmatic, allergic to tree pollen and mold, OAS
Husband - Allergic to amoxycillin
Self - Allergic to housework only


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: saskatchewan, canada
My husband had both as a child. Insects and food. He has outgrown insects, milk, peanuts, cashews, pistachios, still has other tree nuts, eggs, all fish and shellfish.

_________________
DD age 9 1/2 -peanuts, nuts,
DD age 7 1/2 - milk, eggs, chicken, peanuts, treenuts, cats, dogs,
DS age 2 1/2
Husband- asthma, eggs, treenuts, fish, shellfish environmental
Self - penicillan, eurithromiacin, mild laytex allergy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:22 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Georgia
Nicole,
Has he also been tested at a board-certified Doc? This is serious w/ asthma. And this type of testing runs the risk of coming up w/ supposed food "allergies" that are not, in my opinion, real. This cannot diagnose IgE allergies. I have known of several people that have this type of "testing" and then end up w/ severe dietary problems because they are avoiding all sorts of foods that really don't give them a problem. They claim the foods make them tired, achy, dizzy or whatever. I have known several people that have had this testing done, and none have ever identified a true allergy.

A true food allergy is usually able to be detected in repeatable tests. And you can usually correlate the results between skin and blood testing. These type of tests, and the ones where you simply hold a vial of the allergen, are not repeatable. Many studies have been done, and they came up with different results each time.

I was tested by someone that I was told was a Holistic Med practitioner. He used the vials. I told him I had allergies, but not which ones. He "diagnosed" me w/ several new ones, especially "molds" (though he could not tell me which mold...I work in a Bacti lab, which he also didn't know) but he missed all of my anaphylactic allergies! When he started to tell me I had "parasites", also a favorite of mine at work, and he could not tell me which parasite, I knew he had absolutely no clue what he was doing. He was just taking my money. He knew it and I knew it. At that point I politely finished up the "exam" and left w/ a list of teas and such they wanted to sell me. (Of course most of them contained several of my known allergens! Dangerous Jerk!) After I left, I found out he was really a Chiropracter, a fact which he tried to hide on his business advertisements. And of course I needed many more appointments to "clear" my allergies, and identify other ones. You could really spend thousands of dollars on this.

The worst part is when you have a true allergy and they tell you that you are "cleared." This can be fatal.

Just my opinion,
Daisy


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 2044
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
We had a similar experience years ago, Daisy, where we went to a "dietary councillor" who was also a chiropractor (although he didn't try to hide that fact).

He told me to cut out dairy/wheat/sugar/etc. from my oldest son's diet (none of which were his allergies) -- and I was already having problems finding things for him to eat! Then he told me to take bovine colostrum pills (plus much more). Now, I was nursing a dairy-allergic child at the time, and colostrum must contain milk protein, right? Once I figured that out, I stopped going to see him, but before I stopped, I did spend a whack of money on supplements at the shop near his office, which I believe was owned by a family member...

I guess they are everywhere. I realize that healthy eating and such is a good thing, but I do think there are limits to what you should be sold with regards to supplements, etc. And it is dangerous to cut so many things out of your diet if it's not truly necessary.

K.

_________________
Karen, proud Mom of
- DS1 (12 yrs): allergic to cashews, pistachios, Brazil nuts, potatoes, some legumes, some fish, pumpkin seeds; OAS
- DS2 (1o yrs): ana. to dairy, eggs, peanuts; asthma


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:22 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Georgia
KarenOASG wrote:
We had a similar experience years ago, Daisy, where we went to a "dietary councillor" who was also a chiropractor (although he didn't try to hide that fact).

I realize that healthy eating and such is a good thing, but I do think there are limits to what you should be sold with regards to supplements, etc. And it is dangerous to cut so many things out of your diet if it's not truly necessary.


My point exactly...dangerous and expensive! :x And most of these "nutritional consults" have had very little nutrition background (and no biochemistry classes). There are some very reputable schools that train extensively in these areas. It can be very hard for lay people to realize this when someone is promising and easy "cure".

Thanks,
Daisy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 6463
Location: Ottawa
In Ontario (not sure about other provinces) anyone can cal themselves a nutritionist. Only Dietitians are licenced.
I think we need to beware of anyone who diagnoses and then tried to sell us the cure.

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Moderator
Daughter: asthma, allergies to egg, milk, peanuts, tree nuts, most legumes (not soy) & penicillin. Developing hayfever type allergies.
Husband: no allergies
Me: allergies to some tree that flowers in May
Cat: allergic to beef, pork and lamb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:38 pm
Posts: 1643
Location: Toronto
Nicole wrote:
I don't know how they know about the insects, since it sounds like you can't get tested at that age.


Maybe I wasn't clear in what I previously said. The doctor said my son was to young to receive the shots for an insect allergy, and felt it was best to have him avoid ALL insects rather then pinpoint which ones are/are not safe.

Edited to add: In response to Karen's question about people with both food and insect -- in my extended family there are two other people with insect allergy and neither of them has food allergies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:37 pm
Posts: 96
That's great. Hopefully he will outgrow the insect allergies too. A lot of people do. :)

_________________
2 year old son: allergic to milk--waiting to introduce other allergens

self: allergic to milk, eggs, soy and other legumes, corn, oats, wheat, turkey, tree nuts, yeast, fish


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:05 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Daisy, I totally agree with you.

Thankfully, our little neighbour also goes to Dr. Waserman, so it's okay, but sometimes parents get desperate looking for cures or solutions and being vulnerable, they get caught up in these charlatans' spiels.

I am not a fan of chiropractors either. I went to one who claimed he could cure everything, didn't get his children vaccinated, was insisting he should treat my daughter (who was under one at the time). I stopped seeing him because after a year and a half, my back problem wasn't getting better. A few months of physio took care of it. I heard later he was eventually sued for unprofessional conduct and can no longer practice. Now I can't trust any of them, even though some of them are good. but chiropractic remains an unproven science.

AnnaMarie, did you find a citronella bracelet? If you haven't, see my post in your thread on that topic.

_________________
15 year old - asthmatic, allergic to cats, dogs, horses, waiting to be "officially" diagnosed for anaphylaxis
12 year old - asthmatic, allergic to tree pollen and mold, OAS
Husband - Allergic to amoxycillin
Self - Allergic to housework only


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 1454
Location: Canada
While I don't think that it would be a good idea to go to an alternative health practitioner to treat or diagnose food allergies, I don't think that they are all "charlatans." (But Nicole, I know you were referring to specific alternative health practitioners rather than making a blanket statement.)

Someone in my family was very, very ill, and while it is hard to say whether she got better on her own or whether it was the treatments from the naturopath, she is much better. Her naturopath is a caring person who spends a lot of time researching the specific health problems of all of her patients...and she knows her mainstream medicine as well. Regardless of whether one believes that it was naturopathic medicine or just the natural healing process that helped her, the naturopath gave her hope and faith that she would get better, and stress does impede the healing process. (and it was not evident that she would get better...which would have meant that she would not be able to support herself.) Some of the suggestions were good in relation to exercise and nutrition--and doctors ought to focus more on these things as well anyways. A lot of people fall through the considerable cracks in the medical system, and I can entirely understand why people turn to alternative medicine. I'd be very wary of alternative health claims about food allergies...and one does have to realise that 'natural' medicines have not undergone all the toxicology tests that regular medicines have (not that I'm all that trusting of regular medicines either).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:05 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Yes you're right Helen, I shouldn't make generalizations about alternative medicine. I just find it hard to know who to trust after my little experience, but you're also right in saying that conventional medicine doesn't have all the answers either and the system does allow for some people to fall through the cracks.

We have to be open to other forms of treatment. This is what happened when scientists decided to study this promising chinese herb for allergy treatment. I believe chinese medicine has a lot of unrevealed secrets that would be worth exploring.

_________________
15 year old - asthmatic, allergic to cats, dogs, horses, waiting to be "officially" diagnosed for anaphylaxis
12 year old - asthmatic, allergic to tree pollen and mold, OAS
Husband - Allergic to amoxycillin
Self - Allergic to housework only


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 1454
Location: Canada
Thanks for the reply, Nicole. I agree that we should be open minded about other forms of treatment, but I don't think that we necessarily have to be open to other forms of treatment for ourselves (and one area where I think that alternative medicine doesn't get it is food allergies....the means of diagnosis is concerning as well as the conflation of food allergies with food intolerance....that isn't to say that their treatments don't work, but I'd be very cautious.) Even if some of the treatments work, I don't know if they are necessarily safe. I read somewhere that the Chinese herbal formula that you mention actually contains a few ingredients that are not safe. (I think the Dr.--Dr. Li, was it? can't remember her name---removed those ingredients before testing the formula on the mice.) But I do think that researching complementary alternative medicine is the wave of the future.....the University of Toronto supports a project that is heading in that direction:

http://www.camline.org/ but there is little definitive info. here yet....(not even about some fairly well-recognized and safe remedies. like cranberry juice for urinary tract infections.) But even some fairly innocuous natural treatments can be hazardous if consumed in large quantities---i.e. there is a consensus that drinking moderate amounts of green tea is healthy. A study was done, however, that warns that taking green tea in concentrated pill form can be hard on the liver.

I'm interested in learning about alternative health remedies not so much because I'm going to try them (although I did try one hayfever remedy after researching the ingredients. didn't work for me, however), but because I'm interested in tracing connections between what is happening in alternative and in mainstream medicine.

A lot of alternative health practitioners sincerely believe in what they do and that some people might benefit from treatment (but some of the stuff on food allergies concerns me)....So I don't think that we're disagreeing---I was more reacting to the word "charlatan" kind of out of context.... I guess I'd characterize my attitude towards naturopathic medicine as open-minded skepticism. Sometimes I feel that about the pharmaceutical industry as well.

(and, Karen, I hope I'm not verging on discussing a verboten topic on the forum....but if I am, then feel free to delete)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:22 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Georgia
Daisy wrote:

I was tested by someone that I was told was a Holistic Med practitioner.


Helen,
My point was that many are pretending to be Naturopaths or Holistic Med practitioners without actually having trained in this area. From what I have seen online, the training is quite extensive for real practitioners in these areas. They are just so difficult to find in our country. (I've heard that in the UK, they are actually in some MD's offices. This would be an ideal situation.)

I, myself, am considering acupuncture currently. I am researching a practitioner. There is little chance for serious side effects. But I will research this thoroughly before proceeding.

My Vets use traditional and holistic medicine, and acupuncture. They are well-trained in both areas, and usually use the holistic meds when traditional meds haven't worked (for chronic conditions). They are licensed/certified in both areas of practice. And with animals, there is no placebo effect. :)

My own Allergist has suggested a "holistic approach" when treating me. 8) When I first started seeing him, I had complained about having trouble finding certain foods, he suggested a popular "health food" grocery chain. Believe me, I about fell over! Most Docs do not take the time or energy to worry about these areas, or even listen to these problems. He has avoided antibiotic treatment for several minor bouts of sinusitis. I seem to be getting reactions to some antibiotics. He suggested hot tea, warm showers, plenty of water and bed rest. I recovered without further treatment both times. Took a little more of his time, but it saved me money, and saved me a reaction! (I haven't had to take antibiotics in over 2 years.)

But anyone I go see must be well-trained/certified/licensed. And if they tell me they can "cure" me instantly, I will run out the door. :lol:

Daisy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:53 pm
Posts: 1454
Location: Canada
Daisy wrote:
Helen,
My point was that many are pretending to be Naturopaths or Holistic Med practitioners without actually having trained in this area.


Oh, I see. Yep, that pretty much fits the definition of "charlatan" then :)

Sounds like you have a great allergist! It's true, a lot of doctors don't have the time or don't take the time to look into all the details...but with allergies we have to look at every detail of our lives so it can be frustrating. It seems to me, too, that there is a lot of info. in the journal of clinical allergy and immunology which isn't getting disseminated....like the study about the effect of small levels of indoor pollutants (in this case formaldehyde) that have an immediate effect on lung function of those with asthma + dust mite allergy. Also, there was a study about various types of mattress covers that are effective at keeping out dust mites....etc. etc. There are some studies which primarily contribute to the field...i.e. change researchers' understanding of allergy + immunology or provide new info. about new or existing meds. Obviously, the target audience for these studies are allergists and immunologists. But studies on dust mite covers for matresses are a waste of money unless people with allergies are actually informed about them!

Idea: maybe the JACI should publish *some* articles...i.e. the ones that would have a direct impact on the choices that people with allergies make in their lives in a publically-accessible database. okay...now I'm really getting off topic!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:05 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Burlington, Ontario
When I said "charlatan", I guess it sounded like I meant anybody who does alternative medicine, but it's not quite what I meant.

I meant people who are "moneymakers" rather than "do-gooders", like that chiro I saw. It's just difficult to know who's qualified and who's not because there are no formal regulations in place to control any of it. I guess it is also hard to regulate because a lot of it is unproven at this point and could or could not be effective.

_________________
15 year old - asthmatic, allergic to cats, dogs, horses, waiting to be "officially" diagnosed for anaphylaxis
12 year old - asthmatic, allergic to tree pollen and mold, OAS
Husband - Allergic to amoxycillin
Self - Allergic to housework only


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